November 19, 2005
new pub downtown
there's a new pub downtown, and it is a wonderful thing to behold. it's called "Hair of the Dog" and is found on 4th and Market, conveniently located in the 1/2 block between where I work and where I park for work.
they serve all the right beers on tap: guinness, newcastle, boddingtons, red hook, etc (about 12 total) and have lots of cool stuff in bottles/cans too. they did a great job making the place look as close to a pub as I've seen stateside, which is impressive considering the space they had to work with. the decor is tasteful and there's lots of dark wood, and the woodwork on the bar is pretty nice. I love the fact that there's only 1 TV downstairs, and you have to be at the bar to see it, but there are lots of TVs upstairs if you're into that, along with pool tables and dart boards. and there was an acoustic band setting up in the corner (bonus points for a mandolin), so I flatter myself by dreaming of playing there for beer someday (although we may have to branch out from doing just church songs?).
by way of contrast, our latest local St. Elmo dive serves only guinness on tap (but that's a good choice if that's the only one), is cash-only, and seems to be generally populated by dirty old men (hence the porn on the walls I guess?). I salute Hoppy for making it a much better place then Safari ever was, but the Dog has done it just right.
I'm not big on the bar scene, but I think it's pretty cool to have a good place to go for a quality pint now and then. their prices arent great (which is to say high/average: ~$4 a pint), but hopefully they'll have some happy hour specials or something. their food prices looked ok, but I didnt try anything. the guinness was quite yummy however. hopefully soon we'll raise a toast to baby girl there.
Posted by bobw at November 19, 2005 10:20 PM
here's to many reasons to lift a pint in celebration.
I meant to mention I saw that pub was coming while I was visiting. I was curious whether it was related to the Hair of the Dog brewery out of Portland (http://www.hairofthedog.com/beers.html) which make some supposedly very good beers.
I'm guessing its not related since they'd probably be serving their own brews along with the others, but its nice to hear of a cozy pub wandering into chattanooga.
Why are you hatin' on Hoppy's? I am not dirty, or old, or a man, and I think it's a great addition to St. Elmo.
no hatin', just disappointment. it's fine for what it is, and indeed a good addition, it just didnt live up to my hopes. the Dog however, exceeds them.
Bob, you're so disloyal to your community. Perserverance, longsuffering, them be virtues that should be manifest in all aspects of our lives. By the end of the week Hoppy is planning on having 21 beers on draft; the holdup was his distributor waiting to get in some particular type of setup he needed.
Further, the virtue of a local bar, like the virtue of a local community church, is that there is diversity and difference amongst its constituent parts. That we don't get to pick n' choose our ethos or who we get to interact with. More particularly, its probably healthy for you to have to interact with the dirty old men at Hoppy's. just like its good for me to interact witih the local Bar association.
I can only hope you're at least half-joking.
I'll gladly be loyal to my community church, but not quite to my local bar, especially if they dont take credit cards. but I am glad to hear about the wealth of kegs he will soon have. and to me, downtown IS local, as I spend about 33% of my time there.
and henceforth the term "ethos" is banned on this blog.
I'm sorry, but disloyal? Hoppy's is hoppy's and HOD is HOD. Hair of the Dog is CLOSE... VERY CLOSE to where we work. We don't have to drive there - so during the work week HOD is our local pub.
Hoppy's can be the "let's go get a drink" or "look at porn on the wall" place when we're in Stelmo...
I think Josiah was talking about the European Telematics Horizontal Observatory Service - because yes, Josiah is correct in that I can't choose how France develops telematics applications.
Otherwise, while I cannot and will not avoid my neighbors, I am pretty sure that I can choose where to drink, eat, shop, or play.
Some math:
40 hours a week at work (on average)
168 hours in a week
25% of your time a week at work
So, 25% of your time is spent near HOD, 75% is near Hoppy's.
Now in terms of downtown being "local", sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken. It's OK to be a St. Elmoian Bob. Nobody is saying you can't choose where you want to eat, drink, shop, play or whatever, but nobody is saying people can't think you're disloyal to your community based on those choices. I sorta think the American "the Individual is God" 3thos is a bad thing.
Further, while you may have a few of your work crew hanging at HoD, your neighbors, including a good many of those you worship with, have and likely will continue to hang at Hoppy's because it is a local joint. We miss you Bob, we want to know you Bob, come hang out.
Perhaps I'm just being sensitive to myself, my wife, and the dozen or so other good friends of mine male and female who frequent there a number of times a week being characterized as "dirty old men". Or maybe this is just another example of you being morally condescending.
sorry about the "dirty old men" remark, but that's what I saw when I was there. and there's just something about porn on the walls that make me avoid and dislike any place. that's why I never frequent the Tokyo subways.
but I refuse to defend my "loyalty" to the hood. I find the accusation silly in fact, at least on the grounds of the current issue.
and you do realize that about 1/2 the reason for this post was to ret a rise out of you? I find it strange that we get along fine in other mediums (AIM, in person) but you are often accusing me of condescention in this one. not that I'm innocent of the charge, but still, it's weird. I can't say I understand why you say that here (besides the "dirty old men" thing, which was meant to be a joke, and for which I once again apologize).
Somehow, despite having spent some 20-odd evenings in Hoppy's, I have entirely failed to find any porn. I feel like I have failed somehow. Where is it?
Bob, and this is probably now a conversation best had offline, I think you're morally condescending in AIM also. I just don't say anything (my fault) and avoid the conversation altogether. My gut inclination is to scrap back, which would be wrong (I think) and why I choose to say nothing at all.
I also don't get the "porn" thing also, which is a rhetorically powerful accusation to make (in certain circles). I certainly can't think of any porn, with the exception of the small pic of a girl in a bathing suit on the wall behind the register underneath one of the TV's.
Further (and I realize this is a personal assumption/position/bias) I'm a firm, very firm believer in supporting local business, this includes bar/pubs/restaurants. I'm especially biased this direction when it comes to a struggling but up and coming 'hood like St. Elmo (I do, after all, work here, live here, play here, and serve as the neighborhood VP).
So I think, when a business like Hoppy's comes round, where it WANTS to be an asset to the community, where it doesn't comprehensively suck (like say, the Flaming Grill) we oughta frequent said establishment and work to improve it.
Now there's a number of community arguments I think could be made for the role of Hoppy's also, such as its growing role in playing a central meeting place for community members (I love that I can go in any night of the week and run into a minimum of 4 neighbors and friends, and I've most definitely been counting).
I also think that our choices, whatever they are, have certain relational consequences. A decision on your part, one way or another, to frequent HOD as opposed to Hoppy's is a decision to NOT frequent the bar where a significant number of your neighbors are present (myself being one of them). It may not be a moral choice on your part (even if moral language was introduced via "porn" and your admitted desire to "get a rise") but it certainly carries unavoidable negative community & relational ramifications.
We have stepped into bizarro world once again, but since it is lunchtime and since I find Josiah's statements derisive I feel obligated to step back into the discussion.
Josiah, what can anyone take away from the "sticking feathers up your butt" comment? If you're refuting that downtown does not have a community I'll have to deny the point because my working definition of community is essentially "sustained relationships" and relationships happen where you are. Heck, if you tried you can have a community on a daily train commute...
I also trust that you're making a bad joke calling Bob (or I) out on the "the Individual is God" lifestyle. If you are I assert that you're not only ignorant but completely out of line. Perhaps, once again you're making a bad joke - but for your sake I’d suggest you choose a better manor or forum for your humor.
What I do find funny (in a strange, not ha-ha way) is that Bob’s post about a pub brought such great criticism. The ten times a year I see him there I will surely mock him and call him a self serving bastard for you. Sorry to call you out like this brother, but you are so off base here that to be silent seems more wrong than typing these words.
If you'd like to talk through this I'm more than willing to meet - downtown or St. Elmo.
Mesh, there was a bit of retro-porn behind the bar on one of the opening days we went there. If may have been removed since then. It was brought up in a discussion here about and likely prompted some of the dirty-ole-men comments.
Hey!
You guys should have this discussion over a beer...
...at Hoppy's!!!
More alcohol would benefit this stunning conversation.
Also, sometimes when I drink alone, I prefer to be by myself. Is this ok?
This whole discussion makes me not want to go to Hoppy's, as if it's some kind of closed community bar where only locals are allowed. I picture myself and my buddies walking in and all of a sudden the whole place gets real quiet (just like in the movies).
I have nothing against a community bar, or people wanting to support local businesses, but if the feeling of the patrons is "all or nothing" then it doesn't sound like the kind of place I want to hang out. Someone please tell me this is not the case.
I find this conversation interesting on many fronts, not the least of which is that I simply dont go to bars very much, but anyway...
I clearly dont see "community" as you do, and that's fine. simply put, I dont care as much as you do. I have my own priorities I suppose, so I find it frustrating and nearly humorous that you put such weight on where I might choose to hoist a pint.
this is said in all seriousness: please accept my apologies for my condescending nature. I'm realizing it is so ingrained in my heart that I dont even realize it comes out (which isnt an excuse, but rather makes it worse). I'm quite interested in rooting it out. come by Shaun's house tonite if you'd like, but I'm thinking we should probably learn to be better friends before you start to help me remove this log. but perhaps not.
oh and by the way, I've noticed that if you assume a condescending tone in blogs and such, you'll definitely find it. it's by biggest beef with this medium (and IM too)
Scott (and then Bob),
Hoppy's is by no means exclusive in any sense whatsoever. Tons of people from all over Chattanooga hang out there (including people like the Chancellor of UTC). My desire is that it, along with having folks from all over the area, that it be a local bar also for the St. Elmo community (something Hoppy himself has expressed as a desire of his for the bar).
The point is that there is joy for every person that walks through the door and concern (on my part) that some in the community would not want to participate. That's sounds far more heavy handed than I intended. Simply put: there's a party and everyone should come!
Bob, in terms of the "log" and all that. I make no professions of being a good person, the opposite in fact, and I don't necessarily want to help you remove whatever "log" there is. Frankly, selfishly, it makes for far more interesting interactions. I'd find the world a really boring place if everyone were pretty and saccharine and "nice" all the time. Personally I respect your honesty.
Do either of these establishments offer Beamish on draught? Knowing this would make the choice of a temporary watering hole easier come Christmastide.
About Hoppy's, there's also a good argument to be made that its in everyone's interest to support a local business like Hoppy's. I mean, if you live in St. Elmo and you want to see the neighborhood continue to grow economically and see the streets look nicer and property values increased and have a better neighborhood to raise kids and retire, etc, then it would be a good idea to support local businesses that take the risk of setting up shop there.
In the long run, even if you prefer a downtown or northchatt bar, its better to support local businesses in order to encourage more local businesses to open up in St.elmo. You certainly don't want places like Hoppy's to close their doors and have more empty buildings to be torn down.
him: I'm going down to the bar, honey.
her: Again?
him: Don't worry, it's for the children.
:-)
LOL, Bob, I'll raise a cider in Caleb's and your #2's honor (I can't really do the beer thing, hops makes me sick, I usually stick to bourbon).
me: Hey, I'm heading down to Hoppy's
April: again? I'm really starting to hate that place
me: Don't worry, its for the Wieger's kids
best. argument. for. drinking. ever.
Dave: I'm not trying to "win" any argument with Bob. Roughly every 4 months or so Bob and I end up in some online back n' forth where we end up making jokes at the end. Or something.
"Feathers up your butt" and "individual is God" were meant to be rhetorically flammatory, like saying Hoppy's is filled with dirty old men who like to look at the porn on the walls. There's nuggets of truth to those sentiments but they are by no means the fairest or true-est assesment of the state of things.
In that context, I would recommend against you meeting Bob at Hoppy's and calling him a bastard, as there is no nugget of truth to that assesment.
Bob's obviously a big boy that can handle a healthy scrap from two people ultimately coming from the same place, as I *think* this conversation is a testament to.
An aside: I think its practically impossible to experience the same degree of community that you can experience between a location where you spend 25% of your time vs the place where you spend the other 75%. Consider that in yours and Bob's cases, much of the 25% involves integration w/ the other 75% (church, neighborhood, etc.). Nobody is saying you can't have some community or good relationships, but it'd be a rare thing indeed for the smaller to even begin to hold a candle to the greater.
Did you know flammatory and inflammatory are synonyms? So are flammable and inflammable.
congrats on making a bizarre post even more so.
I'm not so sure about this 25/75 split between work and home. Many of my Saturdays are spent away from the house (shopping, sightseeing, etc.). On any given Sunday you'll find me worshipping and fellowshipping outside the home for a good portion of the day. And then when I actually am home, I spend about eight of those hours each day asleep. In fact, when you look at only waking hours I spend less time at home than I do at work. Therefore, a bar close to my office makes much more sense. How's that for an unsensible and insensible argument?
spending a night sick and a seeing that night turn into day - I’ve had time if not perspective to dwell on this whole line of "reasoning."
Josiah, you talk about community and how Hoppy's could be some focal point of that. Perhaps it may evolve into that at some point, but right now it is simply a bar to me. There is also nothing "rhetorically (in)flammatory" about porn. Call me a prude if you will but when I walk into a bar and there are three tv's showing blood and boobs 'b' movies community is the last thing that comes to mind. You obviously have more emotion invested in this establishment than I do and for that I suppose I should commend you - but please hesitate just a bit before you deride those who do not join you.
You also propagate the notion that relationships cannot exist outside of the block you live on or the church you attend. You also imply that somehow we ignorant folk downtown must not know what real community is. I could just call this whole line of thinking pedantic and leave it at that but I'd rather let you know that real people do live and work downtown. They need friends, conversation and times comfort just like the folk in St. Elmo.
Do I all this to defend HOD, proclaiming it to be the Mecca of community? Of course not, but you know, it has some nice beer, I could invite any of my friends there and have a comfortable and candid conversation. And when Bob’s little girl comes along I will buy him a few pints and give a toast of celebration.
In conclusion I will also doubt you Josiah on not trying to "win" an argument with Bob – while this may be the case now, the tone and pace of your previous rhetoric said anything but. While these little discourses might end in “making jokes at the end” I deny your assessment that damage was not done.
Ahhh, nothing like a coupla beers to get a conversation going. Just remember my cardinal rule (one of 'em, anyway): beer and chainsaws don't play well together. Happy Thanksgiving, y'all!!
With all of this talk about commun-ity and telling people where they should drink their beer, are you sure we're not really talking about commun-ism (or rather its bastardized form...i.e., socialism)?
What about the food? Nobody has mentioned anything about the food. Is it true pub food, as in British pub food? That is what I am always looking for. Fish and chips...Yorkshire pudding...Bangers and Mash. Now THAT would be a true PUB!
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